Told by privacytools.io to avoid USA services, but every important thing seems in USA. Where are you guys from?

Linux kernel team is in USA
Reddit is in USA
StackExchange is in USA
Github is in USA
Mozilla is in USA

Almost all essential FOSS and organizations are in USA

  1. Which country is privacytools.io organization in (I see your server IP in German)?
    Where do people in this forum come from? (If you don’t want us to know your nation, could you tell me which continent you are live on?)

  2. Please tell me something not in USA.

    ( Thank those people who told me email providers. I’ve found a list of email providers telling their nation. Now I’d like more answers telling any alternatives to Github, Reddit, StackExchange)

  3. Where can I communicate with people from various countries(including western and eastern) who care about digital privacy and security? in English language. And that forum is not based in USA.

If it is FOSS and/or can be verified, it doesn’t matter where it comes from.

If it’s FOSS, true for now, not for always. No one insure developers and environment never interfered by politics

Also correct. BSD had some FBI/CIA backdoor for years. But if you have to choose between FOSS from USA and closed source from USA, i think it’s easy to make decision

Really? Oh

Sure. I’m using many FOSS made by USA people. I like them and appreciate them.

This post discuss not only software or code, but also services and communities. Reddit, StaExchange, Github are services. Communities formed by people from different parts of world are more trustworth.

Mastodon
A german dev but instances may be all over the world!
Choosing a community

One of reddit owners is Tencent, so it’s even worse :slight_smile:

Regarding Github, if your code is FOSS, it doesn’t matter where it’s hosted.

USA based services are ok, if service is opened towards customers and has good privacy policy.

1 Like

PTIO isn’t a company/organization. According to the privacy policy, the relevant data processor (as it is called in the GDPR) is US-based.

There are services like mailbox.org (a German e-mail provider) that aren’t based in the USA. However, saying that something is better or worse only due to being related to the USA is misleading and leads to nowhere. The opposite of this is to say that a service is better because it is based in Germany or in Switzerland.

When you ask “Why is it better/worse?”, then people commonly answer “Because the USA spies on you.” At the same time, we all use technology coming from the USA every day. “Technology” isn’t limited to hardware like smartphones or operating systems like Android, but also network protocols or web standards. Actually, most modern web standards originate from Google.

Besides, simply looking up the IP address of a web server isn’t enough as the vast majority of web applications uses several layers of servers (e.g., proxy servers, web servers, load balancers, database servers, etc.) that can be in different countries. Even if a service seems to be (for instance) based in Germany since their IP address is from Germany, the full backend can be located in the USA.

There isn’t likely any forum that meets these requirements. Besides, “digital privacy” isn’t a term that is defined internationally. While “information security” basically means the same everywhere, “privacy” in the USA isn’t privacy in Europe.

1 Like

Protonmail, Tutanota and me :joy:

1 Like

@crossroads

Regarding Github, if your code is FOSS, it doesn’t matter where it’s hosted.

I know you meant geographically, but it also depends what your values are, and who you wish to support. It’s inconsistent of PTIO to say they support decentralized/federated services, while relying on a centralized service like github, and its owner microsoft.

Finding the right balance can be difficult.

@momomo
Since books were written, there has been “by the book” versus how things really work; and secrecy, spies and counter-spies. It’s an illusion to think geography changes that completely. If you think most countries not on the “14” list don’t surveil phones, then you haven’t been paying attention. The pendulum has swung too far one way in USA and allied countries, maybe. On September 11 especially, it is worth taking a moment to consider reasons why. And remembering examples like CalyxInstitute and founder Nicholas Merrill, which demonstrate legal process still works.

We’re looking at shifting away from the whole “eyes” thing as it’s rather dated way of thinking.

Many countries spy, (not just the US) and some will either do it for the FVEY agreement, or for some other authority.

The reality is, your choice should be based on where you reside, and whether you think your actions are friendly to the state you’re using services in.

The other thing is to make sure everything you use online that you want private is end to end encrypted, or don’t put it online in the first place.

I have been meaning to do this:

1 Like

In regard to this, we use Github because it improves discoverability. The reality is everything on Github is public anyway so there’s no privacy implication whatsoever.

The reality is, your choice should be based on where you reside, and whether you think your actions are friendly to the state you’re using services in.

There’s more to it, but I agree those 2 location factors are considerations.

we use Github because it improves discoverability. The reality is everything on Github is public anyway so there’s no privacy implication whatsoever.

Anyone who finds PTIO main site can follow a link to your issues site, wherever it is. Discoverability does not seem like a factor.

I assume you mean everything of PTIO is public. Github does offer private repo’s. Privacy alone isn’t my concern.

In other software issue discussions, “who owns it” and can we trust them is a factor. PTIO strongly recommends against Windows10. I’d be surprised if PTIO recommends any microsoft product (other than now github).

If you said PTIO wants to increase microsoft’s expenses (slightly) by taking advantage of their free services, I could at least see that point.

I’ve skimmed this github issue discussion. Many points were made, but weighting and reasons behind the decision were not clear.

To me, running your own gitlab or other issue tracker seems like the obvious choice, except for costs. I know PTIO monthly hosting budget has already gone up 4-5X, however.

Exactly. The vast majority of countries (China, Russia, Israel, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Netherlands, UK, Sweden, …) has at least one intelligence service that is involved in digging through digital information. You mostly see marketing teams that tell the story of “being safe” in certain countries.

On the other hand, there are stories like The German Problem with Tor.

Yes, there are no private repos.

That is because Windows has a lot of analytics and telemetry for advertising purposes. Github’s revenue model is through selling Github Pro and enterprise licensing. The only telemetry they have is for improvement of the product collector.githubapp.com and It is self hosted.

Hii :slight_smile:

  1. I live outside the USA :slight_smile:

  2. Other than what has already been said;
    Mojeek (https://www.mojeek.com)
    Metager (https://www.metager.org) or .de if you prefer.
    Qwant (https://www.qwant.com) - they still might be using google results though

    Matrix (https://www.matrix.org)

    Retroshare (I think?) https://www.retroshare.cc

    Various XMPP servers, some VPNs…ummm and yaaa…thats sort of it off of the top of my
    head I guess…

  3. Matrix.org and privacytools actually has a matrix room

Do you have a source/details?

It is old news, from 10 years ago

I live outside of USA too :handshake:
Others I guess most are USA people
Today till no true “global international” community on Internet :thinking: :roll_eyes:

I assume because of economy. i mean one in EU or US for sure not like one in Africa without food or internet access