[DELISTED] Discussion: Wire

It’s not super clear to find but here’s a link to it: https://wire.com/en/products/personal-secure-messenger/

It’s in the footer called “Wire Personal.”

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Thanks for the prompt response. Indeed, there’s, just not too obvious.

I wonder, how many people tried to build and use their own Wire server, out of source?

I think it not federating doesn’t encourage many into trying that.

https://github.com/wireapp/wire/issues/266

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Discussion has been mainly going on at

And a delisting issue was raised at

https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1488

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@nitrohorse
TwinMe looks a great substitute of Wire

Hmm it does look interesting. It looks like they haven’t open-sourced any software nor conducted any security audits though. I can’t find anything about their E2EE other than:

…all exchanges are end-to-end encrypted by the open source WebRTC protocol used for peer-to-peer multimedia and data exchanges. - https://twin.me/en/support/twinme-protect-data/

I also see in their privacy policy this interesting bit:

We will share the information we have with entities outside of Twinlife if we have a good faith belief that access, use, preservation, or disclosure of the information is necessary to:

  • meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request;
  • enforce applicable Terms of Service, including investigation of potential violations;
  • detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security, or technical issues;
  • protect against harm to the rights, property, or safety of Twinlife, our users, or the public as required or permitted by law.

And regarding point 2 their ToS states:

you are responsible for ensuring that you do not submit material that is:

  1. copyrighted, protected by trade secret or otherwise subject to third party proprietary rights, including privacy and publicity rights, unless you are the owner of such rights or have permission from their rightful owner;
  2. a falsehood or misrepresentation;
  3. offensive, unlawful, harmful to minors, obscene, defamatory, libelous, threatening, pornographic, harassing, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive, or that encourages conduct that would be considered a criminal offense, gives rise to civil liability, violates any law, or is otherwise objectionable;
  4. an advertisement or solicitation of business; or
  5. impersonating another person.

But it seems like they store minimal user metadata so maybe there isn’t much to disclose :face_with_monocle: And I’m wondering how they’d enforce these terms if contents are supposed to be E2EE. Also worth noting, they do have an interesting biz model:

Twinme business model is based on licensing its ethical relationships model based on anonymous opt-in/opt-out to create and service communities around specific subjects of interest (e.g., brands) or content delivery media (e.g., music or video). Clients and their contents providers can enter into personal relationships and yet, each decides at any time how much he/she wants to expose to the other, or stop the relation.

Such a disruptive foundation for interacting online between products and consumers without intermediation, coupled with conversational commerce enabled by twinme chatbot technology, are at the roots of our business model, based on direct consumer conversations (like in a real shop), as an alternative to big data analysis of their private personal behavior.

@nitrohorse
The messages are kept locally, not kept on their server.

Yes, but metadata kills. I’m not sure how users can verify TwinMe’s claims (or your screenshot) without a security white paper (like Wire has), no security audits, and no open-source code. But I could be missing something here.

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I am in convo with TwinMe about how they can do better.

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Delisting Wire from PrivacyTools.io

Closing this discussion to reflect that this is no longer a recommended service. Discussions regarding their delisting should take place at:

Future discussions recommending Wire’s re-listing should be created as a separate thread.